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Collapse That Will Change A Generation

Debt, Markets, and the Future of Money: A Critical Analysis

Debt Cycles and What Comes Next

Looming Economic Shift

Ray Dalio’s discussion centers on the cyclical nature of debt and its impact on economic stability. He highlights how excessive debt accumulation leads to a critical juncture where societies must choose between repaying in hard currency or devaluing their money through inflation. Dalio’s central thesis is clear: the current generation has allowed debt to skyrocket, creating a need for painful economic adjustments in the future. He emphasizes that debt cycles have played out throughout history, from ancient times to modern economies like Japan, and that similar patterns are likely to unfold in the coming years.

Dalio points to the role of central banks, particularly their interventions in buying back debt and the consequences of such actions, including the devaluation of currencies. He warns that the next economic downturn could be especially severe given the unprecedented levels of debt and the limited tools left for central banks. As a hedge, he suggests diversification into assets like gold and inflation-indexed bonds, while expressing skepticism about the long-term viability of Bitcoin as a private alternative to traditional money. His analysis serves as a sobering reminder of the complex dynamics at play, hinting at the potential for significant shifts in both traditional markets and newer arenas like cryptocurrency.

Critical Analysis

Strengths of the Argument

  1. Historical Perspective on Debt Cycles:

    Dalio’s emphasis on historical debt cycles is one of the most compelling aspects of his analysis. By referencing ancient practices like the biblical Jubilee, where debts were forgiven, he underscores that debt accumulation and subsequent restructuring are nothing new. This perspective provides a solid foundation for understanding modern economic challenges, as history often repeats itself. For instance, the U.S.’s current debt levels echo the Japanese experience of the 1990s, where heavy debt loads led to decades of economic stagnation. Dalio’s analysis helps us see that understanding these cycles is crucial for both policymakers and investors.

  2. Why It Matters: Recognizing these patterns allows investors to anticipate downturns and protect their assets, a key principle in the CFIRE training plan.

  1. The Role of Central Banks:

    Dalio makes a strong case about the double-edged sword of central bank interventions. While actions like quantitative easing (QE) can stabilize economies in the short term, they often lead to long-term consequences like inflation and currency devaluation. His comparison to Japan’s prolonged struggle with low interest rates and currency devaluation is particularly illustrative, showing how central banks can become trapped by their own policies.

  2. Supporting Example: The Federal Reserve’s response to the 2008 financial crisis with massive QE helped avert a deeper recession but also set the stage for today’s high inflation. This is mirrored in the cryptocurrency world, where protocols like MakerDAO have to balance stablecoin supply with maintaining value, showing the universal challenge of managing liquidity.

 

  1. Diversification as a Hedge:

    Dalio’s recommendation to diversify investments into assets like gold and inflation-protected bonds is grounded in a practical approach to risk management. His suggestion to blend assets with low correlation helps investors build resilience in times of uncertainty. This advice aligns closely with the principles of portfolio construction taught in CFIRE, where reducing exposure to correlated risks is key to long-term wealth preservation.

  2. Real-World Application: The combination of gold and inflation-linked bonds offers protection against both currency devaluation and interest rate changes, much like using a mix of Bitcoin and stablecoins to balance risk in a crypto portfolio.

 

Potential Weaknesses and Limitations

  1. Underestimating the Role of Technology in Economic Cycles:

    While Dalio emphasizes historical cycles, he may underplay the impact of technological advances on economic resilience. The rise of digital currencies and decentralized finance (DeFi) represents a potential paradigm shift that could alter how debt is managed. Technologies like blockchain could introduce new mechanisms for transparency and efficiency in lending and debt management, potentially disrupting traditional cycles. For example, the use of smart contracts in DeFi could streamline debt repayment and reduce counterparty risks, offering a modern twist on age-old financial challenges.

  2. Counterargument: While Dalio’s caution about relying too much on emerging tech is valid, dismissing the potential of decentralized systems overlooks the innovations that could reshape how debt is structured and managed in the future.

 

  1. Skepticism Toward Bitcoin’s Role as an Inflation Hedge:

    Dalio expresses doubts about Bitcoin’s viability as a long-term hedge, citing concerns about government intervention and market behavior. However, he may not fully account for the growing institutional adoption of Bitcoin and its role as a digital store of value. Unlike gold, Bitcoin offers portability and ease of transfer, making it attractive to a generation increasingly comfortable with digital assets.

  2. Alternative Viewpoint: While Bitcoin’s price volatility is a concern, its fixed supply contrasts sharply with the inflationary pressures of fiat currencies, potentially positioning it as a hedge in a world where central banks continue to print money. This aspect could become increasingly relevant as more investors seek alternatives outside traditional financial systems.

  1. Limited Discussion on Social and Political Impacts:

    Although Dalio touches on political instability, he does not delve deeply into how societal shifts could influence economic outcomes. For instance, growing income inequality and public dissatisfaction with current financial systems could accelerate the adoption of decentralized alternatives. Movements toward more decentralized governance and finance could reshape how future economic downturns are managed, offering new solutions that traditional systems might not be equipped to handle.

  2. Nuanced Perspective: Addressing these social dynamics could provide a more comprehensive view of how economic cycles might evolve, especially in a world where distrust in traditional institutions is growing.


Connections to Cryptocurrency and Blockchain

The discussion around debt cycles and central bank intervention directly relates to the principles of decentralized finance (DeFi). In traditional markets, debt is often managed through centralized banks and government intervention, but DeFi offers an alternative where debt and liquidity can be managed through transparent protocols. For example, platforms like Aave and Compound allow users to borrow against their crypto assets, automating interest rates based on supply and demand without needing a central authority. This decentralized approach could mitigate some of the pitfalls of traditional debt cycles, such as the inflationary pressures caused by excessive money printing.

Bitcoin and the Store of Value Debate:

Dalio’s cautious stance on Bitcoin highlights an ongoing debate in the financial world. Bitcoin, often referred to as “digital gold,” appeals to those seeking a hedge against inflation, especially when central banks engage in policies that devalue fiat currencies. Dalio’s skepticism, however, is grounded in concerns about regulatory crackdowns and the uncertainty of Bitcoin’s correlation with other assets. Yet, Bitcoin’s decentralized nature and scarcity make it fundamentally different from fiat currencies, offering an alternative that could gain relevance as economic instability grows.

DeFi and Risk Management:

The DeFi space also mirrors Dalio’s emphasis on diversification. Just as traditional investors might diversify across stocks, bonds, and real estate, crypto investors diversify among different blockchain projects, stablecoins, and yield-generating protocols. This diversification can help manage risks inherent in the volatile crypto markets, echoing Dalio’s broader investment principles.

Broader Implications and Future Outlook

The themes explored in this lesson are critical for understanding the future of both traditional finance and the emerging crypto landscape. As global debt levels reach new highs, the pressure on central banks to manage economic stability will only intensify. This could lead to more aggressive monetary policies, further devaluing fiat currencies and pushing more investors toward alternative assets like Bitcoin and gold.

The Potential Societal Shifts:

The next economic downturn could accelerate shifts toward digital currencies, especially if trust in central banks wanes. We may see a rise in grassroots financial movements, where communities leverage blockchain to create local economies that are less dependent on centralized monetary systems. This aligns with the core philosophy behind DeFi, offering a vision of a more democratized financial system that empowers individuals over institutions.

Speculating on the Role of AI and Blockchain:

Emerging technologies like AI and blockchain could offer new tools for managing economic stability. For instance, AI-driven analysis could optimize how decentralized lending protocols adjust interest rates, creating a more dynamic response to market conditions. This could help address some of the limitations Dalio highlights regarding central bank policy, offering a future where automated systems enhance market stability.

Personal Commentary and Insights

Reflecting on Dalio’s insights and my own experience in the crypto world, it’s clear that we are at a unique juncture where traditional financial systems and digital innovations are converging. The idea that technology, particularly blockchain, could disrupt age-old cycles of debt and monetary policy is both exciting and daunting. As someone deeply involved in crypto education, I see immense value in helping others understand how these shifts might unfold. The skepticism around Bitcoin and DeFi

is understandable—regulatory uncertainties and market volatility are real. But dismissing their potential entirely might be short-sighted, especially as more institutional players recognize their value as alternative assets.

In my view, the key for investors today is to remain open-minded, to balance traditional strategies with an exploration of new opportunities in the digital space. This mindset is what we strive to cultivate in the CFIRE training program, guiding learners to navigate both worlds with confidence and curiosity.

Conclusion

Dalio’s exploration of debt cycles and central bank policies provides a crucial lens through which to understand the current economic landscape. While his analysis is rooted in history, the emergence of digital currencies and decentralized finance offers new variables that could alter these familiar patterns. The future will likely see a blend of old and new—where traditional financial wisdom meets the innovative potential of blockchain and cryptocurrencies. For those willing to adapt and learn, the opportunities in this evolving landscape are vast. As you continue your journey with the CFIRE training program, remember that understanding these complexities is the first step toward making smart, strategic moves in both the traditional and crypto markets.

You’ve just tackled a deep dive into the interplay between debt, central banks, and the emerging crypto world. Keep pushing forward with the next lesson in the CFIRE program, where we’ll explore stablecoins and their role in navigating volatile markets—an essential skill for staying ahead in these dynamic times!

 

 

 

 

Navigating Economic Cycles: Debt, Markets, and the Future of Money

In this lesson, we explore the impact of debt on economies, the role of central banks, and how financial cycles shape our world. Understanding the mechanics of debt accumulation, restructuring, and monetization is crucial in traditional finance and just as relevant in the evolving cryptocurrency landscape. We’ll look into the potential consequences of debt cycles, inflation, and the changing role of assets like gold and Bitcoin. By connecting these foundational financial principles to the crypto world, you’ll gain a deeper perspective on how both arenas influence each other and where opportunities may lie. This lesson is an essential part of the Crypto Is FIRE (CFIRE) training plan, equipping you with the knowledge to anticipate shifts and position yourself wisely in both markets.

Core Concepts:

  1. Debt Cycles
    • Traditional Finance: Debt cycles refer to the recurring phases of borrowing and repayment that economies experience. As debt accumulates, economies reach a point where repayments become unsustainable, leading to defaults or restructuring.
    • Crypto Context: In the world of decentralized finance (DeFi), debt cycles can manifest through lending protocols and collateralized loans, where the lack of centralized control means markets can react more abruptly to changes in debt levels.
    • Why It Matters: Understanding debt cycles helps you recognize potential downturns and opportunities in both traditional and crypto markets, allowing for better timing of investments.
  2. Monetization of Debt
    • Traditional Finance: Central banks often buy back debt by printing money, a process known as monetization. This increases the money supply, potentially leading to inflation and devaluation of currency.
    • Crypto Context: In contrast, cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin have fixed supplies, creating a deflationary environment that resists the dilution of value through printing. However, some stablecoins simulate central bank behavior by adjusting supply to maintain price stability.
    • Why It Matters: Recognizing how monetization influences purchasing power helps investors understand the risks of fiat currency devaluation and the appeal of crypto as a hedge.
  3. Inflation and Deflation
    • Traditional Finance: Inflation occurs when the value of money decreases due to an increase in the money supply, making goods more expensive. Deflation is the opposite, often resulting from reduced demand or a shrinking money supply.
    • Crypto Context: Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are often seen as hedges against inflation due to their fixed supply. Meanwhile, DeFi protocols can offer yields that outpace inflation, making them an attractive alternative.
    • Why It Matters: Understanding inflation and deflation is crucial for evaluating the real value of assets, both traditional and digital, and for maintaining purchasing power over time.
  4. Diversification
    • Traditional Finance: Diversification spreads investments across various assets to reduce risk, aiming to balance returns when one asset class underperforms.
    • Crypto Context: Diversification in crypto involves holding a mix of assets like Bitcoin, Ethereum, stablecoins, and altcoins, spreading risk across different blockchain protocols and use cases.
    • Why It Matters: A diversified portfolio helps cushion against volatility in both traditional and crypto markets, ensuring that no single downturn wipes out your entire investment.
  5. Central Bank Policies
    • Traditional Finance: Central banks adjust interest rates and buy bonds to control inflation and stimulate economic growth. This impacts borrowing costs and market liquidity.
    • Crypto Context: While crypto is decentralized, central bank policies indirectly affect the market by influencing investor sentiment and liquidity flow into digital assets.
    • Why It Matters: Understanding central bank policies allows crypto investors to anticipate capital shifts, especially when traditional markets become less attractive due to low yields.

Key Sections:

1. Debt Accumulation and Its Consequences

  • Key Points:
    • Rising debt levels can create economic fragility.
    • Debtors must eventually repay both principal and interest, which pressures economies.
    • Central banks often intervene by printing money, leading to inflation.
  • Detailed Explanation:

    Economies worldwide have seen rising debt, partly due to borrowing to finance growth without sufficient productivity gains. When debt levels become unsustainable, central banks often step in, buying back bonds or printing money to stimulate the economy. This process, while necessary, risks devaluing currencies and making repayments easier but less valuable.

  • Crypto Connection:
  • DeFi lending platforms mimic these dynamics but operate without central bank intervention. As such, they are more sensitive to liquidity changes and market sentiment, creating different risks and opportunities for investors.
  • Importance: Understanding this dynamic is key to navigating both traditional and crypto markets, where debt-driven cycles can cause abrupt shifts.

2. The Role of Central Banks in Market Stability

  • Key Points:
    • Central banks aim to maintain balance between inflation control and economic growth.
    • They use tools like interest rates and quantitative easing.
    • Excessive intervention can distort markets and devalue currencies.
  • Detailed Explanation:

    Central banks, like the Federal Reserve, strive to maintain economic stability by adjusting interest rates. High interest rates attract investment into a currency, while low rates encourage borrowing and spending. When crises hit, they may buy back debt, injecting liquidity into the system—a process known as quantitative easing (QE). However, too much QE can weaken a currency, as seen in Japan’s prolonged economic stagnation.

  • Crypto Connection:
  • Unlike fiat, Bitcoin’s supply is capped at 21 million coins, making it resistant to such interventions. This creates an appeal for investors seeking alternatives when they anticipate central bank overreach.
  • Importance: This section highlights the fundamental difference between fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies, emphasizing why many see Bitcoin as “digital gold.”

3. Inflation, Devaluation, and Investment Strategies

  • Key Points:
    • Inflation erodes purchasing power over time.
    • Hard assets like gold and certain real estate can offer protection.
    • Cryptocurrencies provide a digital hedge.
  • Detailed Explanation:

    Inflation occurs when the purchasing power of money declines, often due to central bank policies that increase the money supply. In response, investors often turn to assets like gold, which have intrinsic value and are less affected by currency devaluation. In recent years, Bitcoin has emerged as a digital alternative, offering similar benefits due to its limited supply and decentralized nature.

  • Crypto Connection:
  • Bitcoin is often called “digital gold” due to its scarcity, while stablecoins aim to maintain stable value but rely on the issuer’s reserves, posing a different kind of risk.
  • Importance: Understanding how inflation affects different asset classes helps investors make informed choices about diversifying their portfolios, whether in fiat, hard assets, or digital currencies.

4. Diversification and Risk Management

  • Key Points:
    • Diversifying across uncorrelated assets reduces risk.
    • A balanced portfolio in traditional finance often includes stocks, bonds, and gold.
    • In crypto, diversification includes a mix of coins and tokens with different functions.
  • Detailed Explanation:

    Ray Dalio’s investment philosophy emphasizes diversification to reduce risk. Holding uncorrelated assets—those that don’t move in tandem—can smooth out returns over time. In the crypto world, this might mean holding a mix of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and stablecoins, as well as engaging in DeFi protocols for yield. This helps mitigate the extreme volatility often seen in crypto markets.

  • Crypto Connection:
  • DeFi introduces new forms of diversification, such as liquidity pools and yield farming, allowing investors to earn returns in ways traditional finance does not offer.
  • Importance: Proper diversification is critical in both traditional and crypto portfolios, enabling you to weather market downturns without exposing yourself to unnecessary risks.

The Crypto Perspective:

1. Debt Cycles in DeFi

  • DeFi protocols offer a glimpse into how debt can operate without central banks. Lending protocols like Aave or Compound create decentralized debt cycles, where users borrow and lend against collateral. Unlike traditional banks, these systems have no central authority, making them more transparent but also prone to rapid liquidity changes.

2. Inflation Hedges: Gold vs. Bitcoin

  • Gold has long been a go-to asset during inflationary periods. Bitcoin, often seen as digital gold, offers a modern alternative, with proponents arguing that its limited supply makes it an ideal inflation hedge. However, Bitcoin’s price volatility contrasts with gold’s relative stability, making it a higher-risk, higher-reward choice.

3. Monetary Policy and Market Sentiment

  • Central bank decisions impact crypto markets indirectly. For instance, when the Federal Reserve signals rate hikes, crypto markets often see increased selling pressure as investors move to safer assets. Understanding this interplay can provide opportunities to anticipate market shifts.

Key Takeaways:

  1. Debt cycles impact both traditional economies and decentralized markets.
  2. Central bank policies influence the flow of capital into various asset classes, including cryptocurrencies.
  3. Inflationary pressures highlight the value of assets like gold and Bitcoin.
  4. Diversification remains a cornerstone of risk management across all investment types.
  5. Understanding economic cycles helps crypto investors time the market and build resilient portfolios.

Discussion Questions and Scenarios:

  1. How might a prolonged period of quantitative easing impact the value of Bitcoin?
  2. Compare the risk profile of investing in gold versus Bitcoin as a hedge against inflation.
  3. How could a global economic downturn influence both traditional and DeFi lending platforms?
  4. If central banks adopted digital currencies, how might that affect the current cryptocurrency market?
  5. How does diversification in a crypto portfolio differ from that in a traditional portfolio?

Additional Resources and Next Steps:

  1. “Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order” by Ray Dalio.

Glossary:

  • Debt Cycles: Phases of borrowing and repayment that shape economic growth and contraction.
  • Monetization: The process by which central banks buy back government bonds, increasing money supply.
  • Inflation: The devaluation of currency as a result of an increased money supply.
  • Quantitative Easing (QE): Central bank policy to stimulate the economy by purchasing securities.
  • Decentralized Finance (DeFi): A blockchain-based form of finance that eliminates intermediaries.

You’ve made it through this foundational lesson, laying the groundwork for understanding how economic forces shape both traditional and crypto markets. Continue to build your knowledge with the next lesson in the CFIRE training plan, where we dive deeper into stablecoins and how they maintain stability in the often volatile crypto market!

 

 

 

Read Video Transcript
The next red flag to go up is when the Federal Reserve and other central banks come in and buy again.  And then the next time, that is a very risky point, is when we have the next economic downturn.  What we have done, my generation, unfortunately, has allowed debt to build up, has allowed infrastructure to deteriorate, has instead borrowed forward.
 And so if we think about what  this debt restructuring and renovation is going to cost, and we think about that’s not measured  in money, it really money just produces productivity. So the work and how we’re going  to have to be in order to be effective has to overcome that deficit for this giant  renovation, so we haven’t done it. But it’s very simple.
 There are debtors and there are creditors,  and the system has got to work well for both. One man’s lending has got to be rewarded to compensate  for making that lend, and so you have a process. If you accumulate debt, you are accumulating the need to pay back in real terms.  You have to pay back the principal and you have to pay back the interest in real terms.
 Otherwise,  nobody’s going to want to lend and the system doesn’t work. And the two issues that you have  a choice of is to pay that back in hard money. In other words, money of value that’s of comparable value,  or you have to print money and you pay back in deflated money. And so what has happened over a  period of time throughout history, these cycles, by the way, go back to the Old Testament, years  of Jubilee and the same cycle always happens.
 And there’s a tendency  for debt to rise relative to incomes that are needed to service that debt. And so you see  different societies. In our society, we have high debt service costs, which then will rise as we  have large deficits and large amounts of money to pay back. And if that balance is not well  achieved so that the creditor does not receive an adequate amount of compensation, they will sell  that debt. They will not hold that debt. And so it’s not just the amount of new debt that’s created.
 It is also the amount of debt outstanding that could be sold and therefore  create a huge imbalance between the amount to be sold and the amount to be bought. And so in  history, it’s all repeated in the same way. When that time comes where they have to do that, when  they do that selling and central banks come in and they think they’re saving something because  they’re printing the money in order to pay back the debt as it’s been done.
 Monetization, as we call it.  That that creates a bad compensation and devalues money.  That’s the mechanics.  So there’s no getting it around it.  Wouldn’t it be wonderful if it was like that?  That debt didn’t matter and you could keep borrowing.  But think of it as just you’re borrowing a proxy for stuff and it has to be paid back. What happens in Japan is the worst.
 So what Japan has done is  by printing a lot of money, they have had their currency go down. And so that currency decline  is the way it’s depreciated. So if you have a bond older in Japan, they’ve lost about 80% of their value in their purchasing power.  And that becomes the dynamic. That’s the same sort of dynamic.
 So the next thing I think that  you’re going to see in the United States is you’re going to see a squeezing of consumption. So at the  federal government level, as the debt service payments are rising and the debts are rising on  those, you’re going to see the squeeze. There’s very little room between entitlements that are  fixed payments and the actual revenues that are coming in.
 You’re going to start to see that  squeeze. The real issue will become if you start to see the selling of those bonds. When exactly that happens,  you know, I can’t tell you. The next red flag to go up is when the government, when the Federal  Reserve and other central banks come in and buy again.
 And then the next time, that is a very  risky point, is when we have the next economic downturn. And I think that that probably will be within the next four years.  Cycles, the business cycle lasts about seven years on average, give or take three years.  So I can’t tell you exactly when it will be, but I would say it’s probably most likely within  the next five years, something along those lines. I think a combination of gold and inflation index bonds would be good.
 I think that gold also has the benefit of being uncorrelated  or, by and large, almost negatively correlated with other assets.  So it’s an effective diversifier.  So in thinking of stocks and bonds  and so on, if you bring that in, actually you’ll lower the risk of the portfolio. So it’s very good  from a portfolio construction. It’s also as a war option.
 In history, when we have wars, nobody wants  to lend to anybody. Even allies don’t want to lend to each other because everybody gets in  much more debt and they know that that has to be devalued. And the question is, what is the  common currency? I think the world is leveraged long assets. That means generally speaking,  most assets are leveraged long.
 I think when they print money, that’ll be supportive to some of  those assets as they always do. But I would expect an environment that would be more like  the 1970s or in the 1930s, in which in terms of real terms, that equities does poorly relative  to, let’s say, hard assets. When you think about what is an alternative money, gold is the third largest reserve currency.
 Central banks are now buying it.  I think that also in institutional portfolios  and in individual portfolios,  they’re underweighted inflation hedge assets are.  So I would say, you know, my flyer,  even though I believe so much in diversification, so I would say I would diversify more.  But if I was to say, what is it?  It would be not just gold, but gold in combination, particularly with some of the inflation index bonds, because gold and inflation index bonds are only 16 percent correlated.
 percent correlated. And so they balance each other well. And they’re both over the longer term, relatively good assets to hold in the kind of environment that I think is more probable  than is being discounted and that I worry about. So the ineffective diversifier. And by the way,  I would say people get fanatical about Bitcoin and they get fanatical about gold.
 And I think that they have to think more broadly  when we’re thinking about what is the form of non-debt money. The Bitcoin issue is, I believe  that you’re not going to get privacy in Bitcoin. Governments will follow and so on and can tax and  control however that works. And if an alternative money of any form is threatening to the system,  they can shut it down. They can operate in that way.
 And that the behavior of Bitcoin in terms  of its determinants, past behavior of Bitcoin, doesn’t make it clear to me how it behaves in  relationship to some of these determinants. Bitcoin is also, just to put it in perspective,  it’s a relatively small market in terms of,  you know, it’s like a fraction of, you know,  I don’t know, a fifth of the size of Microsoft or something.
 One stock, and there are many stocks.  So for all of those reasons,  I wouldn’t heap a lot of money into that.  I have a very small Bitcoin position.  But for those reasons, I would say central banks are not themselves going to take on Bitcoin.  Central banks are going to take on, you know, there’s a saying,  gold is the only asset you can have that isn’t dependent on somebody else making you payments.
 So I would favor gold over Bitcoin  for those reasons, but each to their own and make sure you’re diversified because if the type of  environment that we’re talking about that comes to pass, you better be able to turn it into  hard buying power wherever you want and probably have it fairly private. I think that’s crazy.
 And I think that that’s, I’ve been in the markets for 60 years and I’ve been through many, many cycles.  And I know that wonderful technologies,  large changing of the world technologies throughout history,  and I can go back to the steam engine and carry it all the way through.  They all have a cycle, and you also don’t know who the winners end up being in that cycle.
 And there are enormous amounts of risk in that dynamic of operating that way. If you  want to keep money as a storeholder, well, the holy grail of investing is to find 10 to 15 good uncorrelated  return streams because if you find a number of return streams, a number of investments  that are good and uncorrelated, you will have the average return of those.
 So you don’t lessen your  return. Just pick ones that are really really  good that you like but they’re not correlated but you will eliminate at 15 you’ll eliminate 80 of  your risk so you’ll improve your return to risk ratio by a factor of five there’s no way you can  improve your betting on which one is going to be good by a factor of five.
 It’s a competitive game out there  to predict what’s going to be a winner. And then also things change in unexpected ways, as we know.  I was that person. And I remember going through that journey. And I’m so glad that you’re asking  me the question because my purpose of in life now to a large degree.
 And my purpose of being on this show is to try to pass along  such things. And I remember when I started, I was that age and I started to have a family  and I started to think about how many months could I live if income didn’t come in  and then would go to years. And I would take that number and I would take my savings  and I would say, okay, let me cut that in half,  whatever that number is,  because it could go in half between taxes and performance.
 I would take that number and I would start to think about  what is it that is going to be most important?  What’s the purpose and use of that money?  If I could immunize myself against the type of expenses,  if I could prepay my children’s education in a sense  or my living or whatever expenses,  I think that that’s the most important things.
 How do I build that?  I would think about there’s liquid savings  and then there’s your home, which is your  environment. There’s certain things like your environment is very important. And so there’s  how I think about the home and how that works and through improvements and forced savings. And also  there’s taxes.
 So I would want to take care of the benefits first in that quantity, and then I would try to have that  element of diversification. I would view investing as being two types of investing, that investing  for the safe money that’s going to immunize the expenses that I need to pay, and then I’m going to  speculate kind of money because, okay, when you try to beat the markets,  okay, don’t be naive.  You know, at Bridgewater, we put hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars  to do research to try to beat the markets.
 So get the basics down well, including the understanding of diversification and take  care of your needs most.  I think those are the most important things. Maybe above it all is having a saving mentality. The impact of that saving  mentality is enormous. I think it’s such a silly bet, like 25 or 50, it doesn’t make a difference.
 I think that’s the problem with the news cycle and all of this. They’re losing sense of the bigger picture. Okay, Fed policy. What does the Fed have to  do? Fed has to keep interest rates high enough to satisfy the creditors that they’re going  to get a real return without having them so high that the debtors could have them problem.
 So now if we’re looking at this, whether it’s 25 or 50 basis points,  25 basis points is going to be dependent, would be the right thing to do if you look at the whole picture as a whole. If you look at the mortgage situation, which is worse and that affects more  people, then it’s probably 50 basis points.
 But let’s get beyond that, okay, and talk about these  five big forces. The first of those forces is the force that you’re referring to, which is the debt,  The first of those forces is the force that you’re referring to, which is the debt, money, economy, dynamic and force.  OK, so we have a big debt increase.  We have an enormous amount of debt and it’s going to keep increasing.
 And one man’s debts are another man’s liabilities.  OK, so what is that going to mean for monetary policy?  OK, as you have to sell more and more of those bonds, what will be done? I think the same thing was done in Japan, that what happens is there’s not going to be a default.  Of course, there won’t be a default, but increasingly they have to drive down real  interest rates so that real interest rates are significantly negative.
 So you’re going to have,  in order to service the debt, you have to have a significantly  negative real rate. And you also have to have then the depreciation of the value of money  because inflation rises so that you have to have a nominal growth rate. In other words,  inflation plus real growth that is above the nominal interest rate.
 And you have to have  a real interest rate that is negative and you have to have a real interest rate that is negative and you have to  have a positive slow yield curve so that holding bonds is a bad deal and we have a model for  estimating what you be the economy right now is very very very close to an equilibrium level  in many ways if you’re just looking at what is and you’re not looking at the debt problem  and it would look like there should be a modest easing of interest rates and a  move gradually to a more positively sloped yield curve what we would call normal it’s fairly normal
 except it’s not normal in the way that it’s so skewed so if we look at the markets and we look  at the way the population’s income levels are for the various sectors if you look at the bottom 60  if you look at the politics the%, if you look at the politics,  the left and the right, and the nature of what is going on, the two worlds that we live in,  in terms of the economy and the values, that brings us to the election.
 So if we’re talking  about, let’s say, monetary policy, you have to look at the five forces. So back to the five  forces. The first force we talked about. The second force is the force of internal  order and disorder that progresses in a cycle. There is hard left and hard right. So there’s  ideological differences that are creating a political situation that leads us to not only  have possibly different policies, dramatically different policies, which will have an effect  on the economy, will have an effect on the markets. But even worse, or more concerning,
 that it’s conceivable that one side or another might not accept losing.  Okay? Will we have an orderly transition of power,  and will we have an orderly democracy, in which there’s the ability to have disagreement,  and the resolve of those disagreements? I think these are really questionable situations.
 So the second force is that internal order disorder force. The third force is the great  power conflict. In other words, throughout history, there’s a time when the rising power  challenges the existing power, and there’s a world order thing going on. And that world  order thing going on has to do with China, the United States, and so on.
 And of course, it becomes even more important than the economy because it’s considered national  security.  Okay.  The fourth influence is acts of nature, droughts, floods, and pandemics.  And climate is a big influence.  It’s going to cost us $8 trillion a year, it’s estimated, in one way or another in a  world economy that has $100 trillion.  And the fifth force, course is technology okay man’s inventiveness of technology  throughout history those five forces have interacted so when we look at things i think  that there’s the 25 or 50 basis points let’s get beyond that let’s look at the whole arc of that
 in terms of the changing of all of those five forces and their interrelationship?  Well, as I say, I think that there’s two questions. First, the question of will we  have an orderly transition of power? That’s quite amazing. Will we have democracy work as it is?  That cannot be assured.
 So because behind all of this is that we have irreconcilable differences,  not just  pertaining to taxes and wealth and economic policies and so on but in terms  of values you know it’s how do people raise children related to sexuality and  all of those things there are those gaps so I think we hope for an orderly  transition of power isn’t it quite amazing that we would think could we not  have that and then we go beyond that.
 And then we say, what about those policies that are going to be dealt  with? Nobody’s going to deal with the debt policy. That’s going to end up being monetized  down the path. Then the question is issues of taxation. And those issues of taxation will have  an important impact on the capital markets. They’re bought for after-tax returns, by and large.  It’s the important thing.
 You lower corporate income taxes, you raise corporate income  taxes, it makes a difference to prices. So we’re going to have those issues, a lot  of issues to talk about regarding the election. I think when we go beyond that,  most likely there is going to be irreconcilable differences and I think  that you’re going to see more movement to states.
 So there’ll be a challenge of what does the central government control and what do the state  governments control and is there an obedience in a sense. So we are coming more to a fragmented set  of circumstances. What we would need I think is strong leadership of the middle to bring the  country together and leave and isolate more of the extremists, if that was  possible, and then to make reforms, because we do have a very skewed type of economy.
 I don’t think it’s either of the candidates. Okay? I don’t think it’s either. No, it’s not  either of the candidates. I think that the issue of reform, strong leadership in the middle,  I don’t see it. I think that there are real issues in China now, and they changed really in the last four years.  And that is that they need a restructuring.
 A lot of the spending, well, let’s say individuals, 70% of their money was in real estate.  Real estate has gone down.  Stocks have gone down.  Salaries have gone down.  And as a result, they’re not spending and they’re concerned and they’re holding money in cash with deflation cash is a relatively good asset class that’s kind of the  household and the business sector is in that state at the same time you have the government sector  is a problem because most of the government spending 83 percent of government spending
 is spent by local governments those local governments got their money by selling land  for real estate. Okay, there are no land sales, and they borrowed a lot of money, and those that  they borrowed the money don’t get paid. And so the question is, how are you going to get money into  those places to operate? It’s a situation that’s more challenging than Japan in 1990.
 It needs a  restructuring in order to be able to do that.  And then there’s also the question, is the property ownership, is it respected?  And Deng Xiaoping during his period said it’s glorious to be rich.  Is it still glorious to be rich?  So you have an environment in China which is changing and becoming a more difficult environment.
 China, which is changing and becoming a more difficult environment. So it’s the time right now that you would see either is there going to be a restructuring and a getting past that.  The innovation, yes, there’s fantastic innovation in terms of technology. There’s nothing like that  other than in the United States. Europe certainly isn’t a competitor in that.
 However, it’s very  much government directed. Can there still be entrepreneurship and that inventiveness?  I just want to be clear about the investing in China. In all countries, there are cycles and ups and downs and so on. And in no country should you invest so much money that it becomes a  dominant portion of your portfolio. So in China, I still invest in China.
 The question is the size  of the investment and how that investment is structured. It’s been a good experience for us. Investing in China as largely a very  attractively priced place that now has a lot of questions regarding the issues that I’ve  just referred to.
 In other words, the economic issues and the political issues regarding  property rights and whether it’s still glorious to be rich  and how that’ll work. Therefore, there’s a small percentage of our portfolio, which is in China,  and will stay in China through this process. Well, for the last 35 years, I’ve written down  principles and decision rules, literally many thousands of those, and they have operated as systems, decision-making systems.
 And that now I’m very excited about that because, but you have to train them very well, because it’s  been all so specified over a period of time, it is very educational. I’ve then taken a large team  of people and gone through asking it questions and dealing with it and  training it. And the reason is a lot of people ask me questions.
 I’m at a phase of my life where  my main objective is to pass along what I’ve had that it’s a benefit to others. And we interact  such as this kind of conversation. And I thought it would be great if there could be, I could answer  all those questions or we could have discussions. How are you doing and all that? So that’s what  I’ve created.
 It’s called Digital Ray, at least that’s the tentative name, and we’re  beta testing it. We’re going to have several thousand people test it and see how that goes  and then we’ll move forward. But I think it’s exciting when you have, you need to have  computerized decision making working with you because the time of making all those decisions  in your head,  that’s obsolete. You know, the smart person who thinks, ah, I can weigh everything in my head. They’re obsolete.
 Nowadays,  you have to have a partner in terms of those decision-making with the computer.